Battlefield: Bad Company

[tubaros]

FOUR player lobbies? Man, technology today - is there anything they can't do?

[Lucas]

Stupidly, you can't hear the other 8 players in your team. Just the 3 others in your lobby. Really helpful in a team game.

[Korvaz]

Consolification, unfortunately.

[Meerman]

Consolification, unfortunately.

No. EA-fication, unfortunately.

Other games even allow for 16-player co-op games with open comms and no lag (on my host), but EA decided to use their own retarded system that somewhat dodges the whole XBL principle. EA are stupid cunts and that's that.

[Lucas]

Consolification, unfortunately.

No. EA-fication, unfortunately.

Other games even allow for 16-player co-op games with open comms and no lag (on my host), but EA decided to use their own retarded system that somewhat dodges the whole XBL principle. EA are stupid c*nts and that's that.

Meerman: QFT

In every other online FPS I have been able to talk to every other player on my team, regardless of whether they were in my squad or not.

[Meerman]

There's a lot wrong with this and EA. Not catering for the masses by omitting Southpaw controls and having a shit online system. The backlash has begun and I'm glad I didn't shell out.

That said, I find that all the 360 games without Southpaw have all backfired after a few weeks. Clearly those games are one-day flies and I shall continue to boycott all non-Southpaw FPS. There's a pattern there.

[Madjeski]

Can I just ask, how did South-paw ever become your default controller config? For the life of me I cannot think of a game that had the control method as default so you must have started changing the settings on the likes of Halo etc yourself, right?

[Meerman]

Can I just ask, how did South-paw ever become your default controller config? For the life of me I cannot think of a game that had the control method as default so you must have started changing the settings on the likes of Halo etc yourself, right?

Well, if you're as old as me () chances are Halo isn't the first FPS you've played.

Back when the first thumbsticks appeared on controllers (I'm talking the N64 here) there was a launch game called Turok: Dinosaur Hunter which used the thumbstick to look around and aim. You had to use your left thumb for it, whilst your right thumb used the yellow C-buttons for movement.

Using your left thumb for something requiring precision movement such as aiming made perfectly sense back then, seeing as everyone has previously used their left thumbs on a d-pad guiding Mario over narrow platforms and such like. So Turok didn't have alternate control schemes to choose from.

That changed with the release of Goldeneye, which included 4 different (8 if you count the double-controller ones) control setups named after Bond girls. 1.1 was what we now call 'Default' a.k.a. 'the PC way'. 1.2 was the Turok one, now called 'Southpaw'. 1.3 was the old Doom setup, now called 'Legacy' and 1.4 was what we now call 'Legacy Southpaw'. If you want me to show you those layouts then let me know. The latter two have become almost extinct, but some developers still include them. Southpaw is still widely used and recent surveys say that about 25% of gamers still use it. So if a developer decides (or forgets) not to include Southpaw, he'll risk losing a potential 25% of game sales. Not very smart.

So Southpaw was there first, before the other schemes appeared in the menus of console FPS.

Now you may think I'm completely cack-handed using the default thumbstick setting, but I'm not. I can walk and look around just fine, but as soon as I have to shoot something my muscle-memory kicks in and I'm trying to aim with the left stick again. It's annoying and it takes ages for me to get used to. It's the same trying to write something down with your other hand and making it look as neat as if you're using the hand you normally use for writing. In shooting games, you need to hit a target in a split-second. Kill or be killed. If you can't use the controls you're used to, it's best not to bother at all.

If you want to test this for yourself, fire up one of the Halo games and set the sticks to Southpaw and try to play the game like that. Then post back here and tell me how long it took before it became 2nd nature (if at all).

[Monty]

But Meerman (as I say everytime you bring up this argument), I used to play with the Legacy setting (which became 2nd nature from Doom on the original PS). It got to the point where I would buy a game I liked the look of, find out it didn't have a lecagy option and take it back (pre-internet obviously). One day I got a PS2 game I liked enough to just put up with it and within a couple of days I never chose legacy again. It wasn't hard and I didn't have to put in hours of dedicated practise to get it right.


As with the Rock Band instrument prices, I'm not arguing the point of whether its right or not (I'm with you on both counts), just that 'put up or shut up' isn't as hard as you make it sound.

[Madjeski]

I never played Turok. £60-£70 was far too much for a video game. I have indeed tried out South-paw, on Halo funny enough, and I am as cack-handed on southpaw as you are on normal. I would guess it would only take a few hours of constant play to get used to, but I'm too set in my ways.

However, I do agree that a South-Paw control scheme does work for the N64 controller, trying to aim with the C buttons would be a nightmare compared with the analogue stick. So Nintendo's poor controller design is to blame!

[Meerman]

One day I got a PS2 game I liked enough to just put up with it and within a couple of days I never chose legacy again. It wasn't hard and I didn't have to put in hours of dedicated practise to get it right.

How old were you when you walked over to the dark side? When you're young, you pick up everything quicker. Games have always given me the option to switch to Southpaw, so I never had a reason to learn another scheme. But recently some developers stopped doing that, and now I'm f*cked because at the age of 31, I don't have the time or a fairly young brain that picks everything up easily.

But that's not my point. I just want choice. That's all.

However, I do agree that a South-Paw control scheme does work for the N64 controller, trying to aim with the C buttons would be a nightmare compared with the analogue stick. So Nintendo's poor controller design is to blame!

Not quite. Goldeneye and PD allowed you to use either the d-pad or the c-buttons for movement. If you used your left thumb on the d-pad for movement, and the right thumb on the stick for aim, then you essentially had 'Default'. This was setup 1.2 by the by. That controller was rather brilliant, if you ask me.

[Korvaz]

Consolification, unfortunately.

No. EA-fication, unfortunately.

Other games even allow for 16-player co-op games with open comms and no lag (on my host), but EA decided to use their own retarded system that somewhat dodges the whole XBL principle. EA are stupid c*nts and that's that.

I take it you never played Battlefield 2 (Modern combat doesn't count ) or 2142, so i will forgive you for that much. The Squad, in those games, was king. Sure, you had a time, but your squad was more important. It divided you up into groups that you could manage easily, on the PC, including creating squads of your own, removing undesirables and have a little private chat. It also made it easier for the commander to issue orders to small groups of soldiers, as well as split squads if they weren't cooperating. Both the squad and the commander were rewarded for their actions with additional points and a mobile respawn system. It worked.

However, the squad system has been consolified, the position of commander seems to have been removed and ammo crates, artillery and the sniper's motion sensor have been added instead. Not quite the same, really. Also, the squad system is temperamental at best. You get additional points for assisting your squad with repairs and health, as well as kill assists, but there's no real reason to have it. sure, it can islate small groups from the other riff raff, because beyond my friends, i don't really want to hear 13 year old boys on servers calling me a burning stick for taking a tank he wanted but was only using it for repair exploits/XP farming. I make a squad with a small group of friends, i go out, and we try our best. It works, and i don't have to suffer the usual amount of stupidity exposed to in ranked matches.

As for the hosting, they've has it the same in every other title for the battlefield series besides 1/1.5 . Ranked servers are hosted on their own hardware so they can Root out cheaters easily. It's a dumb system, but it stopped people farming on knife only servers, etc etc.

So, partly EA, part consolification.

[Monty]

One day I got a PS2 game I liked enough to just put up with it and within a couple of days I never chose legacy again. It wasn't hard and I didn't have to put in hours of dedicated practise to get it right.

How old were you when you walked over to the dark side? When you're young, you pick up everything quicker. Games have always given me the option to switch to Southpaw, so I never had a reason to learn another scheme. But recently some developers stopped doing that, and now I'm f*cked because at the age of 31, I don't have the time or a fairly young brain that picks everything up easily.

I first got a Playstation for Christmas in 1996 and played with the legacy control scheme up until Mercenaries on the PS2 in 2005 (ages 14-23). I’d say for a good 7 or 8 of those 9 years I smoked a lot of weed which, if anything, made it harder for me to get to grips with the default scheme. As I said, I’d take games back just because I couldn’t play them. It’s not like this was my ideal situation. If I hadn’t enjoyed Mercenaries so much I would probably still be playing legacy, still taking games back (or at least not buying them if the internet says so) and I’d be standing shoulder to shoulder with you on this, Rich. But having got fed up with games I really want not providing me with control options I had a simple choice, put up with it or not. I chose to put up with it. You’ve chosen not to and voice your opinion every single time a game come out which doesn’t let you pick southpaw. You’d think in all these years one of us would have done something about it for you.

But that's not my point. I just want choice. That's all.

But it is part of your point. If it wasn’t you wouldn’t keep ending your argument with ‘I don’t have the time to learn. You try it and see how far you get’. I’m telling you that I did. I had to and it wasn’t that hard. You liken it to writing with your other hand but I think that’s a bit more difficult. Writing is a much more precise skill and one that most people learn from very young, not at the time they first start using analogue sticks.

Like I said before, I agree with you that there should be a choice but to quote the philosopher Jagger “You can’t always get what you want”

[Lucas]

I am not comparing Bad Company to a a PC game that I have never played. I am comparing it to every other FPS I have played on the 360.

All of them have a system whereby I can speak to everyone else in my team and amazingly some of them actually require tactics - it's not a new concept invented by Battlefield.

I could easily find 11 other players to join my team of 12  on Bad Company, but I can't because the game won't let me.  Wouldn't that be better than having  than having 8 randoms running around with that I can't talk to?

For a console FPS, the lobby system is totally broken. If it works on a PC, fine, but the 360 audience has different expectations.

[Korvaz]

A game that's roots, main titles up to this point, and main user base are on the PC and you won't compare it to that? You're also forgetting that battlefield provides more than most FPSes do, mapwise. Vast, open terrain to roam about. Trees to hide in and use your ghillie suit to the full advantage of. A rocky, bumpy road for you to drive a humvee over to attack from another angle, walls to ruin so they can't all hide around the Gold. Fair dos. Yes, other games require tactics, I'm not disputing that, but they've taken a working system (Commander and Squads, with Squad AND open voice chat) and turned it into Squad only voice chat and removed the commander. They put a flawed system (Bad company squads) into Live, which isn't without it's problems (limited friends lists being one of the bigger gripes), and it doesn't work as well as the system should do. There isn't an easy way to set up two voice channels on live, so you got arguably the most important one. The squad you're meant to work with. It's a fair compromise int heir eyes. One i can agree having been used to the squad system in previous titles. As far as i'm concerned, the people not in the squad are meat puppets, there for the snipers on the opposite team. Drop health for them when you can, fix up their vehicles if they need fixing, but just don't abandon your squad to help them. They should be fighting with theirs.

I've always like battlefield for the maps. This one isn't any exception. Dense forests to roll through or hide in, Desert towns for urban combat, or just open fields for a good ol' scrim in some armour. It's no Battlefield 2, but as soon as it gets conquest back, This is easily my online game of the year.

[Meerman]

Blah blah MONKEYS

Stu, I tried. Ok? I tried hard. I can't afford to play an online FPS when I'm struggling with aiming, right?
Again, the point is choice. I get none. Why not? PC gamers get the option to map every button as they see fit. Consoles have HDDs too, why can't we map our buttons the way we like?

I've already sent out emails to various developers but haven't had replies whatsoever.

[Sprite Machine]

Will you just bloody well buy one of those controller mods, please? Hardwire swaps the sticks around. Problem solved. And then stop moaning about it.

[Meerman]

Asking a Dutchie to buy something he shouldn't have to buy in the first place? You should know we always think twice about spending money!

[Monty]

But only think once about complaining on the internet to the same small group of people who have heard it over and over several times.

How about this: every time you complain at the lack of southpaw options in game x I'll tell you how I used to play with the legacy setting and learned how to use default and then I'll ask why you cant do the same?

[Retro GhostGS]

Anothing thing thats seems odd about this whole talking to people thing is that Battlefield: modern combat on 360 allowed you to talk to everyone on your team and that was 16 vs 16.

EA servers are rubbish though, they only do it so they can turn off various games and force you to buy the upgrade. Thank god for 360 hosting on pretty much all non EA stuff. Shadowrun will never die! and it has south paw I think. To be fair to Rich I can see the problem. I have played enough games without colour blind filters to realise how frustrating something like that can be.